Question:
Random question that crossed my mind about momentum?
O'Harrison
2012-12-14 12:46:58 UTC
I noticed a problem in my book about a fireman holding a nozzle that has a diameter (d) and is spraying water at a velocity (v). It says for a continuous horizontal flow of water, what horizontal force should the fireman exert on the hose to keep it stationary?
I already answered the above question but I was just wondering how to solve a problem like this if the hose is non-linear (meaning the hose is not completely straight). Any ideas on this one?
Five answers:
morningstar
2012-12-14 15:37:14 UTC
The answer that it is the flow at the nozzle is all that matters is partially correct. The nozzle has a constriction, so that the water flows at a higher speed out of the nozzle than through the hose. That means it is accelerating at the point of the nozzle, and therefore you can infer a force.



However, water flowing through the hose also undergoes an acceleration if the hose is curved. Let's say for simplicity that everything takes place in a horizontal plane. Also assume WLOG that the fireman points the hose at zero degrees. Then there is only one variable you need to consider for the hose geometry, the angle the hose exits the source (hydrant, engine, etc.), theta. That might be theta = 30 degrees, if the hose makes only a slight curve, or theta = 90 degrees, if it makes a right turn, or theta = 135 degrees, if the hose makes almost a complete U-turn. The exact path that the hose takes is irrelevant to the solution. It could follow an S shape or go around a complete circle three times. The only question is which way the water enters and which way the water exits.



Now the water in the hose will be moving at a different speed than that coming from the nozzle. Let's define the diameter of the hose to be D > d. The speed of the water in the hose is |v|d/D. The impulse is delta m times the difference in velocity at the source and the nozzle. The speed is the same, but the velocity is different. It has x and y components:



I.x = delta m (|v|(d/D) - |v|(d/D) cos theta)

I.y = delta m (-|v|(d/D) sin theta)



The mass flow rate is rho pi (d/2)^2 |v|; we'll assume rho = 1. The force that needs to be exerted to keep the hose stable is



F.x = pi (d/2)^2 |v| |v|(d/D) (1 - cos theta)

F.y = -pi (d/2)^2 |v| |v|(d/D) sin theta



However that doesn't get you directly to your solution. That force is applied at two points: the source and the nozzle. Those two components have magnitude equal to the tension of the hose, but different direction. The directions don't have to be the same as the exit direction of the source and the aim of the nozzle; the hose can "kink" at these points.



At this point I will leave the rest of the solution unfinished. I believe you can proceed by assuming the hose will take up the shape of a circular arc using its full length. The angles of the tension forces thus depend on the length of the hose and the relative position of the fireman to the source. You can solve for those angles, then for the tension.



Incidentally, the answer to your original problem should really be found by F = dm/dt (|v| - |v|d/D). The delta m (|v|d/D) component of momentum is taken up by the water source. To find the answer for the force the fireman must exert when the hose curves, add that solution and the tension as vectors.
Technobuff
2012-12-14 13:12:48 UTC
Seriously, I doubt you would ever be expected to answer such a question. That is why this question only asks for the horizontal force required, even though other force vectors may need to be overcome in order to keep the hose horizontal. I'm not a fireman, but I expect a fireman would be taught to use a hose laid as straight as possible.

I can imagine you might get a similar question involving a hose that is not horizontal and the force required to hold it, but that would also be neglecting any other force vector.
Randy P
2012-12-14 13:24:24 UTC
It doesn't matter. You are concerned with when the water leaves the hose. The water leaves the hose with a certain momentum at the point of exit, and AT THAT POINT the nozzle gets an equal and opposite momentum. That's where the recoil is happening.
God
2012-12-14 13:38:05 UTC
This has nothing to do with momentum. The fireman and the hose are not moving. ZERO momentum.

It has everything to do with forces and how they are being distributed on horizontal and vertical.
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2016-10-18 04:11:19 UTC
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